Review of: After Defending Islam so Hard, the Muslim left Islam Crying
Author: Christian Prince
Channel: CHRISTIANITY & ISLAM DEBATES
Date: 22 April 2022
Caller: One problem I have with the religions, even Islam and Christianity, is because there are many many, many, many gay people and I don't think they're bad. So why they have to go to the Hellfire just because they—
Christian Prince: (irritated) My friend, my friend, let me explain. Let me explain it to you in a very simple way. If you want to come to my house, ….nobody can enter my house wearing his shoes. This is my house. Correct? Do you agree with me, Muhammad? I have the right to say who I want to enter my house, correct? So when you come to my house, please take off your shoes. Why I force people to take off their shoes? Because you step in poo poo, you step in spitting… I don't allow that. This is my house. Now God he have a house and this god he says I have rules: those things for me are not allowed. They are against my teaching. As simple as that. But you want to do them; this is your business.
Let us not beat about the bush here. Christian Prince’s hatred towards gay people is not about what they do. He has no idea what they do, or whether they do. All he knows is that they are gay. His hatred for them is about what they are. And he hates them because they have the temerity to exercise their free will, in short, to refuse to submit. CP lives in a world where to be describes as “god-fearing” is considered a compliment.
Christianity and Islam’s obsession with sex dehumanises their faithful. To such people, what is a gay person? Someone who does that. Homosexuality equates to “the homosexual act.” The more sophisticated amongst the “people of faith” are capable of distinguishing between what they call a “practising homosexual” and one who “controls his urges.” For CP, even that is going too far.
It isn’t that much of a stretch to wonder why anyone who spends his life controlling his urges would wish such urges upon himself in the first place. CP isn’t going to go there with someone who already thinks that the gay people he knows are good people. Such a person is one step away from realising that if God made us, as CP is later going to have to claim, then God made gay people with their urges built-in. Oh no, the Devil put those urges into them and they are condemned for not fighting the Devil. They did not choose to have the Devil target them. They did not invite the Devil to corrupt them. He just did. It is a unique cruelty of monotheisms that they expect what they constantly tell us are weak creatures with little brains, children really, to be able to stand up to the power of Satan, and condemn them to Hellfire should they fail to accomplish what Adam and Eve could not.
CP: You know, you cannot say this person is good and this person is bad. Well, he's doing bad, so how he can be a good person? So if I am a thief and then I make donation, is that I'm a good thief? Is that what's mean if I'm a good person and I do fornication, well, I am a good person to do fornication? So what in fornication is good? How, how we can scale the world good?
This is wrong on so many levels. The most obvious is the implication that in order to be good, one must be one hundred percent good; in order to be bad, one needs merely be more than zero percent bad. In this case, a book of deeds, a balancing of good deeds against bad deeds and a Day of Judgement all become superfluous. Every single one of us is either perfectly good or perfectly bad; each of us is either God himself (perfect good) or the Devil himself (perfect evil). Of course, CP knows that this is nonsense; he just needed to say it at that moment. Later in the same conversation, he says, “He [Jesus] did the impossible for a man, which is not to commit sin.”
For a man who loves stories so much, CP should know that there is no such thing as a human being who is perfectly good or one who is perfectly bad. Every storyteller knows that a thief can make a donation, thereby revealing that he is both good and bad. A good person can fornicate, thereby revealing that he is fallible, as is every human being. Only religions corrupt the complexity that is humanity into zero-sum simplicity and thereby pervert humanity into something inhuman. CP’s caller could see, despite being a Muslim, that being gay does not in and of itself make you a bad person. CP cannot see this because his religion blinds him. He can only hear his God’s rules. “We hear and we obey,” says Qur’an 24:51.
CP: So God he told us what is good and what is bad. It’s not up to you; it’s not up to me.
If God tells you to kill your own child and you refuse, are you good or are you bad? To the faithful, you are bad for refusing God’s command. To those whose ethics are uncorrupted by religion, you are good for refusing to kill you child. Ethics are innate to us, which is how peoples around the world who had never heard of this god with the stone rules, somehow managed to not kill each other down to the day the missionaries turned up to tell them God said they shall not kill each other. We wrote the Code of Uru-ka-gina in the 24th century BCE and the Code of Ur-Nammu (“If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed”) in the 21st century BCE. We composed the Code of Hammurabi between 1755 and 1750 BCE. The estimates for the writing of the Ten Commandments range from 1500 to 750 BCE. Dear people of faith, please pay attention: God learnt good and bad from us, not the other way round. We were onto that distinction at least twelve centuries before God and we can prove it. So let’s hear no more of this if-we-didn’t-have-God-we-wouldn’t-know-good-from-bad business. Learn some history.
It is the ultimate negation of us as a species to hold that if God didn’t tell us not to murder, steal, lie, etc., then that is exactly what we would all be doing. I am not easily insulted, but this idea I find particularly offensive. People who think in this way want to be slaves, want someone else to take responsibility for their lives, want to be subject to totalitarian caprice. It is people like these who make dictatorship and tyranny possible. There would be no Nazism, Communism, Islam, etc., but for the desire to submit to dictatorship, whether the god in question be earthly or supernatural. And those who wish to be dictators find ready-made flocks in believers.
“Those who increasingly want to believe in something often believe in anything at all,” says my friend Andrzej Koraszewski. François “Papa Doc” Duvalier, a trained medical doctor, first saw a future for himself in the dictatorship business when his patients insisted on ascribing their healing to his voodoo powers, rather than to his medicine. With such a population, you just have to push the right buttons and you’ll have complete control over them. Papa Doc did just that be effecting the likeness of the voodoo spirit Baron Samedi. It worked.
So long as religion can get anyone to fear, it can get anyone to hate anyone, and kill anyone. Hatred of women, hatred of Jews, hatred of blacks, hatred of unbelievers, hatred of left-handed people, hatred of white people, any of these a god can be set up to command and the faithful will submit, and oh, I almost forgot, hatred of gays.
CP: You don't have to accept. You know, like you want to be a thief. You want to be a gay. You want to be a paedophile. You want to be whatever you want. This is your business. But you want to enter the house of the Lord, you have to take your shoes off, which mean you have to go by the requirement and the requirement is do this, do that. “Not everyone [who] says to me ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the Kingdom of my father,” the Messiah said, “but the one who do his will.” So you don't have to listen to the Messiah. Don't listen. Go, be drunk. Go, be a paedophile. This is your business.
But he told you already that if you do those things, you don't want to follow me, you don't belong to me. Go to the one you belong to. Jesus made it clear that Satan is the father of all lies. People lie to themselves making themselves believe that they are doing nothing wrong, but in the eye of whom you are good? In the eye of whom yourself you justify always the bad things you do?
When a man you rape a woman he claimed what, you know, she is wearing shorter skirt but that will not change anything. It’s your evil. You force yourself on her. When a man here, you know, he rob a person in the street. Oh, he have a expensive watch and I don’t have anything like this, wouldn't you justify it? Human being always justify his bad. No criminal usually he agree that he is doing a crime. No one do me wrong. He is doing me wrong, they always justify it.
Even we Christians, you know, when we do things, we say we are weak. Yes we are weak. Shouldn't we fight our sin? Yes, true, we are weak. We got tempted. So being a Christian doesn't mean you are an angel and you are perfect and you don't do wrong, no. But being a Christian mean that you fight your sin as much as you can. You don't make your sin your lifestyle and you don't enjoy your sin. When you make sin, you feel guilty and you repent and you do your best to fight it and not to do it again. But if a person he decided to say, well, I don't see anything bad in that, this is your mind, it's your belief. The belief is what is in the Bible. It's not up to you. So there's a requirement if you want to go to the Heaven of Christ, you have to agree with the Christ.
What do you think, Muhammad. Do you agree with Christ, or do you agree with the world. In this world everything is upside down and you know that in this world we have a president he says Islam is peace, but all you know this time is not peace in this world. We have prime ministers, ministers, tv stations saying Islam is wonderful, but you know that this is a big fat lie. So do we follow the world, or we follow God, our holy Lord? It's up to you.
...the pre-Islamic habit of attributing rain to certain seasons and saying the rain came to them because of a certain star, whereas Muslims ought to recognise that rain comes by God’s favour. (Mishkat al-Masabih 3712)
Caller: Well, yeah, like, I don’t have um really any problem with—but again, I don't have much knowledge with Jesus, but, um, except from Islam. Knowledge about ’Issa, but I personally don’t think, I, I don’t want those gay people go to Hell.
CP: Friend, it's not up to you. It's not up to me. This is not about opinion. Heaven and Hell is a place created by God. People who don’t believe in Hell, in Heaven, they do those things or they do whatever they want, you know. So, why you are so worried about them? Are you a gay?
Caller: No, but, uh, I work with one couple, people—
CP: Okay, okay. You know we, we pray that this person will see what is right and what’s wrong in the future, but obviously, you don’t care to be, uh, to be with Jesus. You don’t care. This is not his intention. He prefer his, you know, sexual, uh, enjoyment, more than anything. And this is not only for gays. I mean, who said this is only gays would, uh, well you know anyone who doing bad things, he will end what he deserved to be, where he’ll decide to be. …You’re saying to me I don't think they deserve? Who said so?
Caller: Well, I met a couple, people, they seem—
CP: My friend, my friend, my friend, my friend. It’s not me. It’s not you. I’m not judging people. I’m not the one who say they are bad. I have a book. The book says if you want to enter my Heaven, you do this. Forget about bad and good! Now if you want to enter my house you have to do this and that. You don’t want to enter my house, it’s up to you. So if they did refuse the terms and condition of the invitation, it was their decision. It’s not God who sent them to Hell.
On 11 May 2022, Al-Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu ‘Akleh, a Christian Arab, was shot dead during a terrorist shootout in Jenin in northern Samaria. Many immediately called her a “martyr,” and prayed, ‘may Allah have mercy upon her.’ The backlash was swift and fierce, raging through social media, the Arab press, and in mosques and seminaries around the Arab world. Islam forbids referring to an infidel as a martyr and praying for his soul, and that any non-Muslim is considered a kafir. Memri reports:
The immense appreciation for Abu ‘Akleh’s work as a journalist and her contribution to the Palestinian cause does not change this, they said, nor does the fact that she was a victim of murder and injustice. They stressed that there is no room for political considerations when it comes to the laws of the Islamic shari’a.
In other words, “It's not me. It's not you. I'm not judging people. I'm not the one who say they are bad. I have a book. The book says if you want to enter my Heaven, you do this. Forget about bad and good!” The caller knows his lesbian colleagues to be good people, but that counts for naught—CP has a book that says so; witnesses to Abu ‘Akleh death know that she died for their cause, but that counts for naught—the “scholars” have a book that says so. According to Christian Prince and the Muslim “scholars,” both the caller’s lesbian colleagues and the Christian Shireen Abu ‘Akleh “refused all the terms and conditions to be qualified to go to Heaven.” It’s not God who rejected them, says CP. It’s they who refused God. It’s them who sent themselves to Hell.
CP: God he warned you. He says it’s not up to you, you know. I did not create myself, you know. Did God even ask me if can I create you? So a human being he think is God. Suddenly he is the one who decides what is good what’s bad. And if this is the case, well, go and do as you wish. Why you’re complaining? You can’t complain if this is your wish.
Caller: It’s not my, uh, it’s just something didn’t really make total sense to me when I think about it, because, um, actually, I don't even know what is the Ten Commandments, but, um, I know that, you know, if you still you hurting somebody. If you if you hurt somebody, um, you know, if you lie, you’re hurting somebody, but if I go to work and there is a lady and she’s a lesbian, she doesn’t hurt nobody. She’s just a lesbian—
CP: No, you see, according to the Bible, you are hurting God. Why? Because this is a body God he gave it to you. You don’t own it. You don’t own the body. You see? When I do commit sin, this is not only for lesbian. It’s not only for gays. This is for anything. Christians, people, they do or non-Christians, you have a body. It’s a gift from God. It’s not your body. Who said this is your body? So that’s why, as an example, if you kill yourself, if you commit suicide... listen, if somebody commits suicide, he did not kill anybody. It did not hurt anyone, but this is not your body. God did not give you a life, he did not give you the throat for you to take your life. He gave it to you. You have to give it back as he gave you. It’s not you who made the life. It’s not you who created yourself. It’s not you who owned that body. This body does not belong to you. So when you decide to do as you wish you are using the body he gave to you as a gift. You have to return it. We are borrowing life. We are, we don’t own the life.
Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him… Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph, (Qur’an, 9:111).
So he gave you, he gave you he, he, he gave your birth and you are clean. Why do you want to give back the body to God and it’s full of dirt? So when you’re killed, you’re dirty. When you’re still, you are dirty. When you are lying you are dirty. When you are fornicating, you are, I mean you name it. This is not only about guessing. Listen anything this is the Bible. You want to go with God, you want to be with God. Well, you bring to him what he gave you as he gave it to you, and if you have some wound there, or at least apologise for it, pray for repentance.
Caller: You know I, um I have the Bible in my house. I have King James Bible, but I cannot understand. Like it’s, I try to read it, but like—
The King James Bible is written in Early Modern English. Even native English speakers have difficulty reading it. How much more so a non-native speaker? CP, however, twists his caller’s words into something else:
CP: You are reading it as a Muslim. You are angry from this book. This book is wrong for you. This book is bad and it doesn't matter, by the way, what the version is translation? King James is not a, there’s nothing it’s called King James. It is a translation of King James. So the Bible is the Bible, you know, and if you read it from your heart then your heart will be there. If you read it with hatred and anger, then you will not find yourself.
So now you have a different start, because now you are the Muslim no more. Now, when you read, you worry a different way. You will see different things read from your heart not from your eyes. Only you see when I read especially the Bible, I don’t read really like everybody. I live the story. Maybe you can’t do that. I don’t know how good you can be in that, but because every person is different. But when you read a story, try to be there, you know. Try to imagine that you, okay, this is the Messiah. He is talking. The crowd is there. He is saying this like… he answered in a parable. He said that the Kingdom of Heaven compares to… the king who made a wedding feast for his son. Look how beautiful. Read it. Imagine it. Imagine the parable. He’s given you the Lord himself.
He used images to explain to mankind who is he and what he want from you. And the reason he used parable, because simply we are growing children, you see? We might be sixteen years old; we might be sixty years old; we might be ninety years old; but all of us we are just kids and we need images, and the images is what is our language. Our language is images. I say a chair, in your head you have an image. I say a cow, in your head you have an image. Even though you are saying a word everything is connected to images in our life, so the Lord he used images to explain to you, because he knew that we are not super comprehended people. We are human, we are limited.
Or, as Ali Da’wah put it:
‘How does it happen’? ‘But it doesn’t make sense to me.’ Who cares with your little brain? Yeah. Who are you with your little brain to try to understand these things? How dare you? You don’t know what Allah is talking about. Why does it always have to be logical? ‘This isn’t normal’. ‘This isn’t rational’. ‘I mean, if you believe this and that’s your position, I cannot believe it’. ‘I'm just being honest, I cannot, I find this very difficult to believe’. I’d rather take Allah's text, what Allah said over my little brain all day every day. What can I say? If you believe what you believe in, Allah talks about them in the Qur’an and if Allah and his messenger said that’s what it is, that-is-what-it-is. ‘If you believe that, you believe it, but it doesn’t make sense to me’, Who cares with your little brain? Yeah. Who are you with your little brain to try to understand these things? I’d rather take Allah’s text, what Allah said, over my little brain, all day, every day.
CP: So the purpose is so my people they might understand. So read them like now we open in front of us Matthew 22, a beautiful story. Read it and see how amazing it is. Try to understand. Try to live the story, not to be just a person who read it. So what do you think, Muhammad?
The verses relevant to those who break God’s rules not permitted into Heaven are Matthew 22:1-14, below (I’m using CP’s Peshitta Holy Bible Translated, rather than my preferred King James Version), with my commentary:
1. Again, Yeshua answered in a parable, and he said:
2. “The Kingdom of Heaven is compared to a man who was a King who made a wedding feast for his son.
In the world of urban antiquity, what greater delight and honour could there be, than to attend a wedding feast thrown by a king? This is what Matthew compares Heaven to. Islam goes one better: Jannah is not compared to a brothel; it is a brothel, a nomadic desert barbarian’s idea of Heaven.
3. And he sent his servants to call those invited to the wedding feast, and they chose not to come.
They received an invitation, not a summons. An invitation, by definition, may be freely declined. They chose to decline the invitation. Those who do da’wa, similarly, invite people to Islam, some choose to accept, others choose to decline.
4. Again he sent other servants, and he said, “Tell those invited, ‘Behold, my banquet is ready, and my oxen and my fatlings are killed, everything is prepared; come to the wedding feast.’”
The King was a bit slow on the uptake, and resent his invitation.
5. And they showed contempt and went, one to his field, and another to his commerce.
Rather than have the King feed them for a day, they preferred the way of the ant (Proverbs 6:6-8), and worked to feed themselves for life (Matthew 4:19). For the King, their exercising their free choice to decline his invitation was like casting pearls before swine, and he took deep offence, especially after slaughtering and roasting oxen and fatlings for them.
Allah has specially prepared for those invited, voluptuous women with desirable front passages that remain forever virgin, no matter how many times they are penetrated, and his guests will have permanent erections and each orgasm will last for seventy years.
6. But the rest seized, abused and killed his servants.
7. But when the King heard, he was angry and he sent his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned their city.
An invitation from the King is not to be declined. Those who choose to decline such an invitation pay dearly. Muhammad shares Matthew’s basic approach to invitations:
Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhajirs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai’ except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them (Sahih Muslim 1731a).
8. Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding feast is ready, and those who were invited were not worthy.’
Sour grapes, methinks. It also raises the question: if they were not worthy, why were they invited in the first place? Furthermore, are we now to understand that people who follow Matthew 4:19 and Proverbs 6:6-8 are the not-worthy of Matthew 22:8? But it gets worse…
9. ‘Go therefore to the ends of the roads and call everyone whom you find to the wedding feast.’
Now all those initially not worthy to have at a king’s wedding feast suddenly become worthy. But the King cannot risk another invitation and people exercising their choice, so this time he “calls” them to his feast; they are summoned.
10. And those servants went out to the roads, and they gathered everyone whom they found, bad and good, and the place of the wedding feast was filled with guests.
They are ‘guests’ only in the sense that prisoners are guests of the state, but the parable has to work, so 'guests' they remain. The King’s servants went “to the ends of the roads,” i.e., to the abode of the most wretched, the most rude, and the most despised, and press-ganged them all (on pain of death). It was an ultimatum. In Islam, a hadith expresses the same idea: “The worst food is that of a wedding banquet to which only the rich are invited while the poor are not invited. And he who refuses an invitation (to a banquet) disobeys Allah and His Apostle.” (Sahih al-Bukhari 5177)
11. And the King entered to see the guests and he saw a man there who was not wearing a wedding garment.
12. And he said to him, 'My friend, how did you enter here when you did not have a wedding garment?’
This generous king expects those who eke out some kind of existence at the ends of the roads to own wedding clothes, and not only that, that they bathe, perfume themselves and change into those clothes while they are being “gathered” and herded up to the castle. Granted, this is not the barbarism of Islam, but it is also a far cry from the humanity of CP’s caller, who is demonstrably better than Matthew.
13. Then the King said to the attendants, ‘Bind his hands and his feet and cast him out into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14. “For the called are many and the chosen are few.”
The Muslim who has spent a lifetime doing such deeds as Allah promises will gain him entry to Paradise, only to find when he is on the threshold, a decree that Allah has already laid down for him before birth and of which he knew nothing, takes effect and he ends up in Hell instead. Likewise vice versa. According to Muhammad:
One of you will do the deeds of those who go to Paradise so that there will be only a cubit between him and it or will be within a cubit, then what is decreed will overcome him so that he will do the deeds of those who go to Hell and will enter it; and one of you will do the deeds of those who go to hell, so that there will be only a cubit between him and it or will be within a cubit, then what is decreed will overcome him, so that he will do the deeds of those who go to Paradise and will enter it. (Sahih Sunan Abi Dawud 4708).
In this respect, Matthew is worse than Muhammad, for in Matthew, the people are already in Paradise and enjoying its delights, when one of them, through no fault of his own, is violently ejected from there, “into the outer darkness, [where] there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” To add the final ignominy, Matthew concludes that, although you had no choice in whether you were in Paradise or not, God, nonetheless, then chooses whether or not you shall remain there, or end up expelled to Hell. Of course, Matthew’s king assumes that those “chosen” to remain at his wedding feast themselves wish to remain there.
Muhammad makes the same assumption, but is more prudent than Matthew’s king. Once you’ve accepted the invitation to join Islam, don’t ever get any ideas about leaving. “If anyone leaves his [Islamic] religion, kill him.” It is a provision fully appreciated by CP’s Muslim counterparts. As Sheikh Qaradawi famously put it: “If they [Muslims] had gotten rid of the punishment for apostasy, Islam would not exist today.” It is a lesson Matthew’s king has been learning to his cost ever since secularism neutered Christianity, a fate that Islam has so far escaped.
It is not clear why CP finds God’s gross deceit in Matthew 22:1-14 “a beautiful story,” while he ridicules the description of Jannah in Qur’an 9:111 and Sunan Ibn Majah 4337, and Allah’s deceit in Sunan Abi Dawud 4708. Of course, such stories, no matter which religion tells them, proceed from the same base ethics prevalent during antiquity. In their depictions of Paradise, both religions negate humanity, one with gluttony, the other with debauchery, and both respond to disobedience with extreme violence, yet each claims superiority over the other.
The Muslim caller that CP thinks he has ensnared into Christianity is as much out of reach to that religion as he is out of reach to Islam. “One problem I have with the religions,” says the caller, “even Islam and Christianity, is because there are many many, many, many gay people and I don’t think they’re bad.” To not think of gay people as inherently bad already places the caller beyond the nastiness, vindictiveness and spite of both Islam and Christianity.
This caller might seem to have submitted to CP’s sleazy salesman hard-selling of the Messiah, but the problem with the religions remains unsolved. The caller knows his gay colleagues are good people. They are his colleagues; he works with them everyday. CP did not even know that these people exist, yet he arrogates onto himself the authority to overrule his caller’s judgement of character and presumes to pronounce the caller’s friends bad people deserving of Hell.
The caller has a problem with the religions because his humanity has a problem with the religions. This is a problem beyond CP’s understanding. The caller may not yet realise it, but he has already abandoned both Islam and Christianity, and is, as such, too good for religions. CP is well equipped to prise people away from Islam, but totally incapable of persuading anyone to abandon their humanity for submission to God’s commandments, whatever those commandments may be. Numerous analogies and a parable will not cut it, but that is all that CP has; at least, it is all he can risk.
To answer this caller’s concern on human grounds is to lay Christianity open to exactly the same ridicule that CP so delights in lavishing on Muslims. The reasons CP always prevails against Muslims are not because the stories of Christianity make more sense or require less suspension of disbelief, but because: firstly and most crucially, Muslims have shut down their own ability to think logically and critically (their “scholars” busy themselves with the minutiae of submission); secondly, it is inconceivable to a Muslim that there could be anything better than Islam; thirdly, Muslims fail to understand that authority does not confer truth; fourthly, Muslims have set their benchmark for perfection and finality at barbarism, leaving them no room to manoeuvre; and finally, Islam is that much more unethical than Christianity.
CP can afford to be stone-cold logical in his take-downs of Islam, assured in the knowledge that even if Islam were a lovely, peaceful religion, Muslims would still be unable to defend it. He can dabble in humanity to expose the inhumanity of Islam, but if that same device is turned against Christianity, he panics and must deflect as hard as possible by whatever means. This is what we see when someone in the process of leaving Islam asks him about religious hatred and abuse of gay people. It becomes an unedifying spectacle as the ugly side of Christian Prince is exposed.
For more than two minutes after introducing the caller to Matthew 22, CP continues to hustle him into accepting the Messiah, speaking as if the caller had already declared his exit from Islam. He, nonetheless, continues hammering Islam, partly because he knows that the caller has not yet actually apostatised, partly because his claim that it doesn’t matter to him whether the caller becomes a Christian or not is false, and partly because he has to confine the matter to Islam. The caller’s concern for gay people, however, comes not from Islam, but from his humanity, and here CP cannot dominate the conversation, so he avoids the caller’s humanity altogether, and repeatedly steers the conversation back to Islam, where he is able to dominate the caller.
“We Christians, we value very much the crucifixion of Jesus, because in the cross we show his amazing endless love to us.” Really? Blood sacrifice? This is not love thy enemy; it is love thy torturer—let’s call a spade a spade here. This is Stockholm syndrome writ large. This is what Christian Prince hard sells to those in the middle of the incredible trauma of apostatising from Islam, a religion that would kill them for doing so. But if CP can catch them before they heal, he stands a chance.
The caller is slow in taking the bait. For him, this is a serious matter, and he wants to be sure about what he is getting himself into. There is much to-ing and fro-ing between them, with the caller raising very reasonable concerns and an increasingly impatient CP harassing the caller with endless patronising analogies.
Caller: No, I’m not unreasonable. I just want to check out the reference—
CP: My friend, my friend, it’s not what reference says, can prove to us that, because history can be written by somebody have an agenda, you know. I can be, I am a Christian. I suppose you know I believe in Jesus. So I not live in time of Jesus, I will say, ‘well, there’s a million people who saw Jesus.’ This is not what make people believe or not. When I focus in the Messiah, I focus in the quality. If Jesus was just a person like us, he will do what we do: he will be after women; he will be after money; he will be after fame; he will be after power; he will not be in any of us. But Jesus he did what no human can do: not only he can do miracles, but he did the impossible for a man, which is not to commit sin.
“Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith,” (Qur’an 5:102). Stop asking questions and accept the Messiah already! Welcome to Christian da’wah. Gay people deserve Hell. It’s as simple as that. That is the good his God has taught him. Thankfully, most who leave Islam do so not in pursuit of yet another god, but in pursuit of their own humanity. Therein lies hope.
CP: The Lord he invite us to be in his house in his kingdom.
Caller: Is it true so all my, my Muslim grandmother, all these people are never gonna see them in Heaven, because they’re not—
CP: My friend, maybe you can, maybe you can help them. Maybe, you know, I don’t know if she’s still alive. Maybe you can talk to her. Maybe you can help her. What you can do, I mean, this is not in your hand. This is not. Uh, pray to the Lord, you know, I don’t know what we, you know, I cannot tell you they will go to Heaven, because the Bible is so clear: “I am the way.” People who worship wrong god, they will not go to Heaven. Even if my own father, he don't believe in Jesus, he will not go to Heaven.
Caller: Yeah because I only know in Islam, like if you know about Islam, but you don’t believe in Islam and that means you are kafir. So you’re not going to go to Heaven…
CP: It’s a choice my friend. Cry not for anyone. I cry for nobody. Even if on my own brother my own blood or my own son or my own daughter they decide to reject Jesus, I will cry to nobody. I will never. I will never even…
Or, as Sheikh Ahmed Deedat put it, “My black brother is nothing. I can sacrifice him for Allah and his Rasool. ...The Prophet is closer to us than our own flesh and blood, than we to ourselves.”
CP: You go, that’s your choice. But I won’t cry for them. I will never cry to anyone. People they do, they get what they deserve, and they go where they belong… Never cry for anybody, not because you don't love the people, no, but this is what they did to themselves.
Caller: Yeah well—
CP: It’s not you who did it to them. They did that to themselves. They have all their life journey and they did not wake up. But you die, it’s too late. That’s why I’m saying to you accept the Messiah now my friend, before it is too late.
Caller: Yeah, the reason I feel the pain is because, uh, you you told me, “oh you want to have Heaven with the endless penis.” I don’t want to have that, but I want to go to Heaven to see my grandmother, see my grandfather. I miss them. So that's why I feel the pain. But—
CP: I understand, you know. For me, maybe I am a stronger person than you. I have different personality. We are different. There’s some people that are very sensitive. There’s people that are less sensitive. But for me, I understand reality that God he make decisions and people they choose where they want to be. So if I cry for a person or not, I’m not going to change anything. As simple as that. If my tears will help, I will cry until tomorrow, but that will not change anything.
Just so you know, CP, humans cry in empathy, especially when they cannot change anything.
So what do you think Muhammad? Do you accept the Messiah as your saviour?
Caller: Yeah, I accept.
CP: Hallelujah! And me myself, I apologise for being harsh with you, but you see, being harsh help. It wasn't harsh to be harsh. I wasn't harsh to hurt your feeling. It was harsh to save your soul and the one who saved you is the Lord.
It would be a great leap forward in cultural evolution if believers were to stop lying to themselves about knowing good from bad. They have no idea about good and bad. All they know is how to obey God's commands, regardless of whether those commands are good or bad. They conflate "good" with God's compulsion, and "bad" with God's prohibition. In other words, the most that they can claim is that they know the distinction between God's compulsions and God's prohibitions. Why is it good to murder your child on God's command, but bad to murder your child on your neighbour's command? I the believer can see the point I'm making here, then perhaps he or she might begin to appreciate that it is the atheist who is ethical and moral, and the believer who, by definition, cannot be ethical.